The best Bitcoin videos, infographics and podcasts - CoinDesk
The best Bitcoin videos, infographics and podcasts - CoinDesk
Bitcoin Payment System – article at BestChange.com
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Bitcoin vs. Ethereum: What's the Difference? - Learn to ...
Alpha Rovers greatest moments V2.0
It's been about 6 months since this list was last updated, let's see if we can get to 101. Currently at 76. 1-Pushes his cat in a cat stroller 2 -Gets another man to change a lightbulb 3 -Rides around on a 9bot 4 -Choked on a shot of whiskey 5 -Complained about his drawn butter 6 -Makes homosexual jokes about co-workers 7 -Mocks people with speech impediments and/or disabilities 8 -Watched all Twilight and 50 Shades movies 9 -Drinks Champagne all year round 10 -Befriended a mouse that lives in bushes outside his house. Claims mouse had "little mouse hands". (credit thehotsister) 11 -Asks women if they like backdoor action 12 -Asks women when they started developing breasts 13 -Facetimes with an 8 year old girl regularly 14 -Likes to tell stories about his threesomes with another dude, not sure as if he recalls having a threesome with 2 females. (Chaka7511) (Terryballsonchin) 15 -Started wrestling boys around the same time he started masturbating, not sure as if he recalls wrestling a girl. (Chaka7511) 16 -Likes to befriend turtles. (rawdog87) 17 -Hates every popular thing for inexplicable reasons . (blueskynoise88) 18 -Lets ex girlfriend Duji walk all over him. (blueskynoise88) 19 -Has never exceeded 199.99 pounds. (blueskynoise88) 20 -Dislikes people that are passionate about stuff. (jt312) 21 -Once downed a tub of animal crackers over the course of one show. (ThrashemCatchem) 22 -Calls B2's dad for anything that involes tools. (qigger) 23 -Once picked up a hammer and was rushed to ER by B2mywife for a sliver that was undetectable with modern medical technology. (SnitzTheGoat) 24 -Doesn't feel comfortable eating chocolate covered bananas in public. (Sanity0004) 25 -Sprained his wrist while attempting to vacuum. Bought a Roomba instead. (DetroitLightningSF) 26 -Loves telling long stories about the shit ton of dippin dots he ate over weekend. (Subtle_OG) 27 -Has expressed interest in learning more about soccer. (liluzipurp) 28 -Likes to freeze his chocolate dusted nuts. Claims they are delicious. (jeffmoss262) 29 -Got married in swishy pants. (Triceratastic) 30 -Plays the flute. (notdongbobbler) 31 -Has wife pump gas when he's not in his Tesla, that he owns, because it's electric and thus doesn't need gas. (MrsHoose6) 32 -Was shot but fortunately the bullet only grazed him and didn't leave much of a scar. 33 -Rarely mentions this subreddit and says Reddit like he's unsure what it is. 34 -Deleted message board from his website and claims he doesn't read internet comments. 35 -Doesn't like to acknowledge the city that made him. Prefers "The City where the show is based" and sometimes "Up north here" 36 -Wears a "nail bracelet" that his wife gave him for "nailing her so good". (hspencer1) 37 -When Anderson Cooper comes up, Rover likes to mention at least 3 times that he really likes Anderson Cooper. 38 -Was once kidnapped by a large woman and possibly sexually assaulted, but not sure... 39 -Favorite insults are "What a doooosh" and "What a jacknut" 40 -Invites a tech expert on show to take calls, makes a joke suggesting the tech expert is a pervert, then proceeds to answer calls himself. 41 -Ahhbsessed with anal sex. Likes to tell every hookup girl the proper way to do it. LOTS OF LUBE! 42 -Shaves all of his body hair, including his anus. Hmm... 43 -Chose to travel the world with Charlie, whom he insists is a beta homosexual. Strange coincidence... 44 -Bought an orginal Star Trek outfit for over a thousand dollars. Says Game of Thrones fans are nerds. (jerichosway) (lucky917) 45 -Claims he has never told B2 his wife that he loves her. (SnitzTheGoat) 46 -Allegedly told Duji he loves her when they dated. 47 -Had sex with Duji for a decade. 48 -Married a girl out of his league, B2mywife, but seemingly prefers masturbating in bed while she sleeps instead of sex. 49 -Had B2 his wife assemble his grill. 50 -Never spoke on the phone with B2 his wife until they married. Later shocks his fans by admitting that he did in fact speak to her before the marriage. (hspcencer1) 51 -Talks to Duji on the phone every morning on his way to work. 52 -Made a sex tape with Duji. Ewww that is sick! 53 -Would send emails to Duji posing as his cat. 54 -Took time off work when his cat died. 55 -Found out his dad died on the air. Shrugged it off. 56 -Sent his Uber driver back to pick up his baseball cap. (CantLookAway99) 57 -Doesn't understand how Charlie and Snitz have so much time to watch netflix and hulu. Proceeds to watch 86 episodes of the Sopranos in 2 weeks. 58 -Watches every Oscar nominated movie to prepare for the Oscars, then spends two days gabbing all about it. 59 -Cried in bed next to Duji when he was allegedly dumped by a local news reporter. 60 -Makes fun of Rush Limbaughs fake radio voice, used to sound an awful lot like Rush Limbaugh. See Dieter vs Butterbean. 61 -Likes to interrupt people to correct their pronunciation. 62 -Likes to stop in the middle of an email to point out a misspelled word. 63 -Doesn't follow anyone on twitter. 64 -Doesn't recall if he was engaged to Duji. 65 -Doesn't have kids, but cut ones umbilical cord. 66 - Claims rock is dead and thus has no choice but to listen to Pink, Taylor Swift and Camila Cabello. Even had a Range Rover that only played Pink. (Cantlookaway99) (Chaka7511) (Dieterswig) 67 -According to one eye witness Rover was seen dancing on his boat to a Pink song. (Mtneer24) 68 -Comes up with painful and/or humiliating competitions for his underlings but never competes himself. 69 -Used to pick up chicks by pretending to be an australian actor, complete with accent and his black friend Tyrone playing the part of bodyguard. 70 -Had an indian friend Patel, says he smelled of curry and didn't even know it. 71 -Said the girls of Babymetal were hot, not realizing they were 12-14 at the time. 72 -Thinks Track Jackets and Hurley hats are cool. 73 -Can not say the word "podcast" without immense disdain. 74 -His show is always #1 when an affiliate drops him. 75 -Handles criticism by talking louder than caller, then claiming said caller hung up. 76 -Says he was #1 before JLR and will be #1 after JLR. Most viewed youtube clip is JLR. 77 -Drinks La Croix. Update 2.0 78 -Wrestles with co-workers 9 year old girl 79 -Plays mysterious "sleeping monster" game with co-workers 9 year old girl 80 -Kicked out of Auschwitz for squeaky shoes 81 -Says Cindy on The Brady Bunch was "the hot one" 82 -Called his co-workers morons for jumping on the Bitcoin bandwagon while secretly investing himself (calipiterseverywhere) 83 -Hosted illegal warehouse parties during his rebellious teenage flute playing years. (BigGulpsx) 84 -Wears hoodies in the summer. Too Alpha for AC. (chongo11) 85 -Lost wedding ring playing in the snow with ex-girlfriends daughter (chongo11) 86 -Asks for an opinion, proceeds to explain how opinion is wrong, just wrong! (NwoNW) 87 -Approves of a rejoin shitting on other shows for doing lists, proceeds to do 1-2 lists per show. (NwoNW) 88 -Gets tour bus with his face plastered all over it to get the show more exposure, then hides bus in secluded parking lots. (jeffmoss262) 89 -Wants gun regulations for people with mental health issues. Lost his shit when his ex-girlfriend went on a date. (PeterMEWL) 90 -Wore zippers fashioned into a jacket in Paris. (Fartboxboy4life) 91 -Shits on Dieter for keeping his girlfriend now wife secret. Was in secret relationship with Duji for a decade. (Fartboxboy4life) 92 -Gets an upset tummy when he drinks beer. Going to Germany for Oktoberfest. 93 -Frequent emergency bowel movements and avoidance of B2 suggests leaky butt and explosive diarrhea, possibly from a stretched/weakened sphincter. (DeeJayShawDay) 94 -Has spent entire segments arguing over the correct pronunciation of Maybach. 95 -Is pro eugenics 96 -Explained away a pile of tissues next to his bed as being the result of so much sex with B2mywife. 97 -Laughs at JLR for getting a prostitute. Brags about dating a porn star. 98 -Flooded the engine of his sport suv by driving through a puddle (sandiegotaco) 99 -Still claims he's never told his wife that he loves her but is sure to tell her how much he appreciates her everyday. (Roger4Pres) 100 -Has pictures of co-workers 9 year old daughter all over his workcenter. (Roger4Pres) 101 -Rover during his teenage years of running from cops and banging chicks left and right. https://imgur.com/gallery/MzRS0h4 (DeeJayShawDay) 102 -Claims he can throw a baseball 75+ mph but on the day he was going to prove it his wrist starting hurting. (Roger4Pres) 103 -Claims he has a friend. What's more, this friends name is "Crank" and Rover talks to him about once a year. (Roger4Pres) 104 -Became an expert in mental health after working in a mental hospital for 1 year, but doesn't like to mention this more than once every 3 hours. (mos661) 105 -Is sure to let every black celebrity he interviews know that he had a single mother and they were poor when he was growing up in Vegas. (mos661) 106 -Made his wife quit her job to “help” with all of his business. Does not pay her anything, then bitches when she wants something. “B2 is looking for a new car, well I guess I’m getting a new car cuz I’m paying for it” (hspencer1) 107 -Made the decision to become a soccer fan at the age of 42 and immediately flew to London to watch a game. Not interested in Cleveland sports teams or even acknowledging they exist. 108 -Somehow grew up poor despite his parents being a doctor and a lawyer. 109 -Loves gabbing about his non-processed diet. Goes to Dairy Queen at least once a week with some little girl. 110 -Once spent an entire segment bitching at Charlie for using a day and a half of vacation time. Meanwhile, Rover is going to Europe for 3rd or 4th vacation this year. 111 -Will CANCEL your RMG+ membership if you bitch about RMG+. Gained Legendary Alpha status as a result. (hspencer1) 112 -When he walks around the block by his house he is always traveling uphill. It is currently unknown how he achieves this seemingly impossible feat. (multiple mentions) 113 -Was surpised by the speed of a turtle he tried to catch. 114 -Won't push a shopping cart or carry out leftovers as these are the job of a woman. (hspencer1) 115 -Has his 93 pound wife drag the garbage cans to the curb. (hspencer1) 116 -Has B2 deal with handymen that do work around the house so he can pretend he's too busy to fix things himself. 117 -Suggests he's going to fire Duji for her poor news reading skills on a daily basis for close to 20 years. 118 -Had a marker thrown in his face by Duji. Promised to get back at her one day. This was around 2015. 119 -Continues to do a poor impersonation of JLR despite universal hatred for it. 120 -Kept quiet while Gene Simmons treated him like a little bitch. 121 -Said Rob was a horrible person for denying he was the father of a child. Rover continues to deny he has any kids despite spending all his time with one that looks just like him. 122 -According to a recent poll, Rover is the second least liked person on his own show. This might explain why Duji is still around. 123 -Says everything on Reddit is a lie. Everything on this list is a verifiable fact except a few that are more speculation. 124 -Says "Iced" instead of "fired" 125 -Says "The hiv" instead of "HIV" 126 -Instead of coming up with entertaining radio bits he prefers to spend his time working on the technical side of the show like the "WIRES!" and the broken video player that is RMGTV. Too full of himself to hire a professional. (johnclevohio) 127 -Instead of simply calling it "the news" he insists on calling it "the shizzy, the news" (moss661) 128 -Went to a sex club and got serviced by some hot chick but can’t quite recall any of the details (NwoNW) 129 -Says a little bit of JLR goes a long way. Fans say hire JLR full time and get him in the studio. 130 -Claims he is lifting 30lb dumbbells, could easily prove it but chooses not to. 131 -Takes a girl he claims he's not the father of to "Daddy daughter dances" 132 -Was enraged when he learned Snitz was making 1 to 10 dollars a week on Twitch. Says fans were only donating that money because of his RMG fame. 133 -At 5 years old he experienced a lifetime of adventures. 134 -Made his wife cry when she bought the wrong candy bars for Halloween. 135 -Befriended an insect, possibly a silverfish, that lived in a hole in his shower. (zdriver7) 136 -Flew First Class while his wife rode coach. (zdriver7) 137 -Is so dedicated to putting on a good show that he arrives a full minute before the show goes live. Only arrives late 1-3 times a month. 138 -Shits on Bob and Tom for fake laughing but acts oblivious to Duji's incredibly fake and annoying laughing. 139 -Promised a 10 year retrospective. 10 years ago. 140 -Allegedly gave Duji a six figure payout when they broke up. 141 -Frequently inquires about the age of Snitz's daughters. 142 -Rates his wife a 7. Also rates Duji a 7. 143 -Asked a guest if his sons were "well hung" 144 -Made his wife cry by taking 30 seconds to make reservations at a restaurant (LarryJarocque) 145 -Complained for years about pain in the tip of his penis. Was cured by a finger up his butt. (LarryJarocque) 146 -Frequently shows up to work with a white substance on his lips (LarryJarocque) 147 -Was spotted in the wild wearing these https://imgur.com/a/FVMlwhg (Roger4Pres) (notdongbobbler) 148 -Says Americans are fat and stuff their faces with Doritos and cheeseburgers all day. Is fat and stuffs his face with animal crackers. 149 -Buys a million dollar bus to tour the country and go to all the big events. Goes to something called Spiedie Fest instead. A festival dedicated to cubed chicken in a bun... 150 -Blocked his door with a heavy old typewriter so he could have his virginity taken without interruption. (NwoNW) 151 -Chose not to get his wife anything for their first anniversary. 152 -Has special wipes for his oily eyelids. 153 -Only buys the douchiest of vehicles. Ranger Rovers, Teslas and possibly a G-wagon soon. 154 -Isn't comfortable drinking tap water because it runs through pipes while recognizing the fact that bottled water also runs through pipes. (jtr489) Any suggestions not added means they're most likely covered already.
How much would a Bitcoin node handling 1GB blocks cost today? I did some back-on-the-envelope calculations.
1GB blocks would be able to confirm more than 5000tx/s. That would be VISA-level scale (which handles, on average, 1736tx/s). We often hear that we shouldn't raise the blocksize because then nodes would become too expensive to run. But how expensive exactly? We have the following costs to take into account:
For now, I'm going to assume a non-pruned full node (i.e. a node that stores all transactions of the blockchain) for personal use, i.e. for a computer built at home. I'll add in the calculations for a pruned node at the end, which would likely be the prefered option for people who merely want to verify the blockchain for themselves. If you don't care about the assumptions and calculations, you can just jump right to the end of this post. If you spotted any error, please inform me and I'll update my calculation.
There's, on average, one block every 10 minutes, that is 144 every day and 4320 blocks every thirty days. I was able to find a 3TB HDD for $47,50 on Amazon, that is $0.018/GB. Storing all blocks with all transactions of a month (4320GB) would be $78.96/mo. Prices for storage halved from 2014 to 2017, so we can assume that to half in 2022, thus we can reasonably assume it'd cost around $40/mo. in 2022. But would such an inexpensive hard disk be able to keep up with writing all the data? I found a comparable cheap HDD which can write 127MB/s sequentially (which would be the writing mode of Bitcoin). That would be enough even for 76GB blocks! Edit: For the UTXO set, we need very fast storage for both reading and writing. Peter__R, in his comment below, estimates this to be 1TB for 4 billion users (which would make ~46,000tx/s if everyone would make 1tx/day, so id'd require about 10GB blocks). jtoomim seems more pessimistic on that front, he says that much of that has to be in RAM. I'll add the $315 I've calculated below to account for that (which would be rather optimistic, keep in mind).
Bandwidth is more complicated, because that can't just be shipped around like HDDs. I'll just take prices for my country, Germany, using the provider T-online, because I don't know how it works in the US. You can plug in your own numbers based on the calculations below. 1GB blocks/10 minute mean 1.7MB/s. However, this is an average, and we need some wiggle room for transaction spikes, for example at Christmas or Black Friday. VISA handles 150 million transactions per day, that is 1736tx/s, but can handle up to 24,000tx/s (source). So we should be able to handle 13.8x the average throughput, which would be 1.7MB/s x 13.8 = 23.46M/s, or 187.68Mbit/s. The plan on T-online for 250Mbit/s (translated) would be 54.95€/mo (plus setup minus a discount for the first 6 months which seems to cancel out so we'll ignore it), which would be $61.78/mo. This plan is an actual flatrate, so we don't have to worry about hitting any download limit. Note, however, that we don't order bandwidth for only our Bitcoin node, but also for personal use. If we only needed 2MB/s for personal use, the plan would be 34.95€, thus our node would actually only cost the difference of 20€ per month, or $22.50/mo. Nielsen's Law of Internet Bandwidth claims that a high-end user's connection speed grows by 50% per year. If we assume this is true for pricing too, the bandwidth cost for ~200Mbit/s/mo. would go down to 12.5% (forgot how exponential growth works)29.6% of its today's cost by 2022, which decreases our number to $2.81/mo.$6.66/mo. Edit: jtoomim, markblundeberg and CaptainPatent point out that the node would have a much higher bandwidth for announcing transactions and uploading historical blocks. In theory, it would not be necessary to do any of those things and still be able to verify one's own transactions, by never broadcasting any transactions. That would be quite leechy behaviour, though. If we were to pick a higher data plan to get 1000MBit/s downstream and 500MBit/s upstream, it would cost 119.95€/mo., however this plan isn't widely available yet (both links in German). 500MBit/s of upstream would give us max. 21 connected nodes at transaction spikes, or max. 294 connected nodes at average load. That would cost $39.85 in 2022 (with correct exponential growth).
CPU/Memory will be bought once and can then run for tens of years, so we'll count these as setup costs. The specs needed, of course, depend on the optimization of the node software, but we'll assume the current bottlenecks will have been removed once running a node actually becomes demanding hardware-wise. This paper establishes that a 2.4GHz Intel Westmere (Xeon E5620) CPU can verify 71000 signatures per second... which can be bought for $32.88 a pair on Ebay (note: this CPU is from Q1'10). We'd need to verify 76659tx/s at spikes (taking the 13.8x number), so that pair of CPUs (handle 142,000tx/s) seem to just fit right in (given one signature per tx). We'd also have to account for multiple signatures per transaction and all the other parts of verification of transactions, but it seems like the CPU costs are neglegible anyway if we don't buy the freshest hardware available. ~$100 at current prices seem reasonable. Given Moore's Law, we can assume that prices for CPUs half every two years (transistor count x1.4162), so in three years, the CPU(s) should cost around $35.22 ($100/1.4163). For memory, we again have to take into account the transaction spikes. If we're very unlucky, and transactions spike and there won't be a block for ~1h, the mempool can become very large. If we take the factor of 13.8x from above, and 1h of unconfirmed transactions (20,000,000tx usually, 276,000,000tx on spikes), we'd need 82.8GB (for 300B per transaction). I found 32GB of RAM (with ECC) for $106, so three of those give us 96GB of RAM for $318 and plenty remaining space for building hash trees, connection management and the operating system. Buying used hardware doesn't seem to decrease the cost significantly (we actually do need a lot of RAM, compared to CPU power). Price of RAM seems to decrease by a factor of x100 every 10 years (x1.58510), so we can expect 96GB to cost around $79.89 ($318/1.5853) in 2022. Of course, CPU and memory need to be compatible, which I haven't taken into account. Chug a mainboard (~$150) and a power supply (~$50) into the mix, and the total would be just over $600 for today's prices. Even if mainboard and power supply prices remain the same, we'd still only have to pay around $315 for the whole setup in 2022.
I found a comparable harddrive with 6W. We need N*6W, where N is the number of hardrives (17.28 per year).
Edit: We also need fast memory for the UTXO set, so we'll take some 3x NVMe SSDs for that (see below), which require 18.6W in total.
So we'd have 129W147.6W + N*6W. Electricity cost average at 12ct/kWh in the US, in Germany this is higher at 30.22ct/kWh. In the US, it would cost $11.14$12.75 + N*$0.52 (P*12ct/kWh / 1000 * 24h/day *30days / 100ct/$), in Germany 28.06€32.11€ + N*1.30€. At the end of the first year, it would cost $20.12$21.73/mo. in the US and 50.52€54.57€/mo. in Germany. At the end of the second year, it would cost $29.11$30.72/mo. for the US and 72.98€77.03€/mo. for Germany. It increases by $8.98/mo. per year in the US and by 22.46€/mo. per year in Germany. Electricity prices in Germany have increased over time due to increased taxation; in the US the price increase has been below inflation rate the last two decades. As it's difficult to predict price changes here, I'm going to assume prices will remain the same.
In summary, we get:
Storage: $78.96/mo., $40/mo in 2022, (E:) +$315 initially for NVMe SSDs
Bandwidth: $22.50/mo., $2.81/mo. $6.66/mo. in 2022, Edit: or $95.37/mo. for additional broadcasting, or $28.25/mo. in 2022 prices.
If we add everything up, for today's prices, we get (E: updated all following numbers, but only changed slightly) $132/mo. (US), $187/mo. (DE) for the second year and $71.92/mo. $78/mo. (US), $115.79/mo.$124/mo. (DE) in 2022. It definitely is quite a bit of money, but consider what that machine would actually do; it would basically do the equivalent of VISA's payment verification multiple times over, which is an amazing feat. Also, piano lessons cost around $50-$100 each, so if we consider a Bitcoin hobbyist, he would still pay much less for his hobby than a piano player, who'd pay about $400 per month. So it's entirely reasonable to assume that even if we had 1GB blocks, there would still be lots of people running full-nodes just so. How about pruned nodes? Here, we only have to store the Unspent Transaction Output Set (UTXO set), which currently clocks in at 2.8GB. If blocks get 1000 times bigger, we can assume the UTXO set to become 2.8TB. I'll assume ordinary HDD's aren't goint to cut it for reading/writing the UTXO set at that scale, so we'll take some NVMe SSDs for that, currently priced at $105/TB. Three of them would increase our setup by $315 to$915, but decrease our monthly costs. E: However this UTXO set is also required for the non-pruned node, therefore the setup costs stay at $915. Even in the highest power state, the 3 SSDs will need only 18.6W in total, so we'll get a constant 147.6W for the whole system. In total, this is:
New Storage: $0/mo.
Bandwidth: $22.50/mo., (E:) $6.66/mo. in 2022, Edit: or $95.37/mo. for additional broadcasting, or $28.25/mo. in 2022 prices. (same as above)
Electricity: $12.75/mo. (US), 32.11€/mo. (DE)
CPU: Initially $915
In total, this is $35.25/mo. in the US and $58.57/mo. in Germany for today's prices, or (E:) $19.41/mo. (US) and (E:) $42.73/mo. (DE) in 2022's prices. Which looks very affordable even for a non-hobbyist. E: spelling E²: I've added the 3 NVEe SSDs for the UTXO set, as pointed out by others and fixed an error with exponentials, as I figured out.
"Do you need a Blockchain?" - this paper is fantastic, everyone should read this before evaluating a coin and if requires a block chain to solve a solution the coin is promising to solve. (136 points, 41 comments)
Do any of you foresee a crypto being widely adopted as a general purpose payment coin? nano, btc, btccash etc (take your pick). I think it won't happen for reasons in this post. What do you think? (59 points, 54 comments)
Noticed the huge rise of EOS lately what does it have over NEO and ethereum and to a lesser extent Cardano? I tried researching it, but wasn't sold. (54 points, 55 comments)
Hard Problems in Cryptocurrency: Five Years Later ~Vitalik (46 points, 1 comment)
I had a Q&A with Bruno head architect / CEO of oyster, thought you guys might like it. (45 points, 2 comments)
A good article that explains in simple terms how Eth2 works, how it will be rolled out and migrated from eth1 (42 points, 4 comments)
DAI the stablecoin can now be transferred GAS free (article explaining how it works via new MCD DAI contract). This holds alot of promise for the so called "Web3" (40 points, 8 comments)
Veriblock is consuming 27% of bitcoins block space - what does this mean for bitcoins future? (39 points, 16 comments)
Vitalik: Alternative proposal for early eth1 <-> eth2 merge (38 points, 3 comments)
Is launching a PoW permissionless blockchain still possible today? or would it be too susceptible to a 51% attack? (37 points, 37 comments)
Technical comparison of LIGHTNING vs TANGLE vs HASHGRAPH vs NANO (133 points, 37 comments)
Addressing Nano's weaknesses (bandwidth usage and disk IO). Nano voting traffic to be reduced by 99.9% by implementing vote by hash, lazy bootstrapping, and reduced vote rebroadcasting (x-post CryptoCurrency) (78 points, 8 comments)
Emergent centralization due to economies of scale (PoW vs DPoS) – Colin LeMahieu (52 points, 37 comments)
Nano community member developing a distributed "mining" service to pay people to do PoW for third-parties (e.g. exchanges, light wallet services, etc) (32 points, 20 comments)
What do you think about OpenCAP, the cryptocurrency alias protocol that mirrors traditional email addresses? (15 points, 12 comments)
Bitcoin would be a calamity, not an economy (11 points, 52 comments)
Part 5. I'm writing a series about blockchain tech and possible future security risks. This is the fifth part of the series talking about an advanced vulnerability of BTC. (43 points, 43 comments)
I'm writing a series about blockchain tech and possible future security risks. This is the third part of the series introducing Quantum resistant blockchains. (36 points, 4 comments)
Part 4B. I’m writing a series about blockchain tech and possible future security risks. This is the fourth part of the series explaining the special quality of going quantum resistant from genesis block. (25 points, 21 comments)
Part 6. (Last part) I'm writing a series about blockchain tech and possible future security risks. Failing shortcuts in an attempt to accomplish Quantum Resistance (24 points, 38 comments)
I'm writing a series about blockchain tech and possible future security risks. This is the first part of the series introducing the basic concept of blockchain and what makes it reliable. (23 points, 10 comments)
I'm writing a series about blockchain tech and possible future security risks. This is the fourth part of the series explaining the special quality of going quantum resistant from genesis block. (7 points, 1 comment)
Part 2. I'm writing a series about blockchain tech and possible future security risks. This is the second part of the series: An accessible description of hashing and signature schemes. (5 points, 0 comments)
Everytime I try to investigate the technology behind Cardano(Ada), I come across the words "scientific" and "peer-reviewed" over and over but almost no actual details. Can someone fill how this coin actually works and where they are in development? (126 points, 49 comments)
"Do you need a Blockchain?" - this paper is fantastic, everyone should read this before evaluating a coin and if requires a block chain to solve a solution the coin is promising to solve. by Neophyte- (136 points, 41 comments)
Technical comparison of LIGHTNING vs TANGLE vs HASHGRAPH vs NANO by Qwahzi (133 points, 37 comments)
Everytime I try to investigate the technology behind Cardano(Ada), I come across the words "scientific" and "peer-reviewed" over and over but almost no actual details. Can someone fill how this coin actually works and where they are in development? by RufusTheFirefly (126 points, 49 comments)
160 points: holomntn's comment in ELI5: Why did it take so long for blockchain technology to be created?
121 points: KnifeOfPi2's comment in How do we change the culture around cryptocurrency?
105 points: theglitteringone's comment in Outside of currency and voting, blockchain is awful and shouldnt be used. Can anyone explain where blockchain is worth the cost?
102 points: benthecarman's comment in If crypto now is like 'the Internet' of the past, where are we?
96 points: pegasuspect93's comment in If crypto now is like 'the Internet' of the past, where are we?
95 points: bannercoin's comment in Realistically, why would anybody expect the startup crypto platforms to beat out the corporate giants who are developing their own Blockchain as a Service (BaaS) solutions? Ex. IBM, SAP, JP Morgan...
83 points: AlexCoventry's comment in Ethereum private key with all zeroes leads to an account with 5000$ on it
82 points: deleted's comment in Is blockchain really useful ?
Questions and Answers from OKEx AMA with Tron Black - 2/18/2020
https://twitter.com/OKEx/status/1228212766126661633 The AMA was a huge success! THANK YOU TRON! If you want to see all the questions that poured in when they opened the AMA up for questions from the audience, here they are: https://pastebin.com/KVpyXmgu The Telegram admins had to temporarily mute the group because there were so many questions flooding in from so many people. A *good problem* to have. :) Below are all the ANSWERED questions. ------------------------------------------------------------------- [email protected], [18.02.20 05:09] Here’s question#1:What is your background and how did you come to the idea to create RVN [email protected] Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:12] Sorry, I was locked out for minute. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:12] I'm just a tiny part of Ravencoin, and there are some amazing developers (Jeremy, Mark, Cade, and Corbin) that have been brought the new capabilities to mainnet. The core idea of bringing assets to a bitcoin-derived blockchain platform came from Bruce Fenton, a former Executive Director of the Bitcoin Foundation with life-long experience in the traditional finance and stockbroker world. Medici Ventures is allowing some of its developers to contribute to the project. I was fortunate enough to have the right background to help with this project. I have a CS degree, C++ coding skills, economics background, early entrepreneurial success, teaching experience, an MBA, and a burning passion for the crypto-space and how it can change the world for the better. [email protected], [18.02.20 05:12] Thanks. Here's question#2: Why did you name the project Raven? What was Raven created to solve? What is the business model of the project? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:12] The name came from Bruce Fenton. Ravens are clever birds with a rich history. Ravencoin makes it easy to create and transfer your own asset. There isn’t a business model for the project. It is a gift to the world in the spirit of Bitcoin. Medici Ventures has allowed some of its top developers to contribute time and effort to the project. Medici Ventures does hold some mined RVN, so it may be a win-win. [email protected], [18.02.20 05:14] Thank you for answering. Let's move on to the next question# 3. What are the $RVN tokens used for? What gives it value? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:15] Thank you for asking. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:15] The RVN tokens are used to purchase your own token on the Ravencoin platform. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:16] Those RVN are burned. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:16] RVN is also used to incentivize the miners to secure the chain. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:16] RVN is also used for transaction fees for tranferring RVN or user-created (your) assets. [email protected], [18.02.20 05:17] Cool. Here's question# 4:In your opinion what is the unique "selling" point, or best feature, of Ravencoin? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:17] This is like being asked "who is your favorite child." Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:18] Except answering it doesn't cost children thousands in therapy so I'll give it a shot. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:18] The best feature of Ravencoin, with the most unexpected results, has been its linkage to IPFS. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:19] This was originally done to ensure that meta-dat about a token doesn't get lost like it has on other platforms like Counterparty. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:19] The linkage to IPFS has RECENTLY been extended to include messaging, and memos. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:20] You can now include information, even a PDF, or a video clip with every transaction. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:20] This is powerful, and I can't wait to see how it gets used. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:20] -------------------- [email protected], [18.02.20 05:20] Quesiton#5 What are the advantages of using Ravencoin for assets tokenization compared to other blockchain protocols? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:21] Wow. Where do I start? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:21] First, the meta-data about the token can be recorded via IPFS, so everyone knows what the token represents. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:22] Second, the token has a unique name which can help with preventing fake tokens, and allows humang readable "root-of-trust" for the token that isn't just 40 characters of hex (ERC-20). Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:22] There explorers for assets, like: https://ravencoin.asset-explorer.com Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:23] and https://www.mangofarmassets.com/assetviewer Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:23] Wallets like RVN Wallet, MangoFarms Wallet, and Zelcore wallet support Ravencoin assets. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:23] -------------- [email protected], [18.02.20 05:23] Here's our next question from Twitter# 6: Does being fully community-driven blockchain have its own drawbacks for rvn? You know, voluntarism means no marketing or legal team. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:24] Yes, oh yes. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:24] But the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. [email protected], [18.02.20 05:24] [ Photo ] 📣Group is Off Commenting for a while due to AMA. Will allow back when Q&A session later. Kindly be Patience with us. Thank You🥰 Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:24] It is just technology that people choose to use. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:24] Ravencoin has attracted the right kinds of people, including donated legal help when it was needed. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:25] The lack of a marketing budget does slow the awareness. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:25] In some ways this is good, and the demand for RVN isn't reliant on promotion. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:25] As other projects stop promotion, or run out of marketing funds, they are at risk. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:26] Ravencoin is just growing slowly and steadily as more people learn about it. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:26] Consider yourself fortunate to have learned about Ravencoin early.😁 Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:26] --------------- [email protected], [18.02.20 05:27] Great!!! Here's the next question from Twitter# 7:is it apple to apple if I say that ravencoin is going to disrupt wall street just like bitcoin is disrupting to central banking? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:28] At the very least, Ravencoin will help show the way that tokenization can improve capital formation. It is up to others to take advantage of these new tools, technologies, and features. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:28] It might happen first in countries other than the U.S. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:29] Look at the story of Blockbuster Video (former leader in video rental), and Netflix (current video streaming leader) to see what might happen in the future. Is Wall Street the new Blockbuster Video? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:30] I see similar patterns of arrogance, but only time will tell. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:30] --------------- [email protected], [18.02.20 05:30] Here's the next question# 8: How will Ravencoin defend hashrate distribution (algo question) if there are important securities issued on this platform (double spend attack)? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:31] Ravencoin doesn't re-org after 60 blocks which helps prevent double-spend attacks -- a feature called NLR. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:31] Also, something to be aware of is that in most cases tokens are redeemed by an issuer which removes the incentive to double-spend. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:32] Example: Let's say the token is a share of real-estate. The laws of the jurisdiction for the real-estate would apply when redeeming for dividends, etc. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:33] Also If the issuer is using the Restricted Assets feature of Ravencoin which have tokens that start with $, then the stolen tokens can be frozen. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:33] Note: Regular assets (not starting with $) can't be frozen. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:33] The issuer of the token should specify how redemption is handled. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:33] -------------- [email protected], [18.02.20 05:34] Thank you for your detailed answer. and Quesiton#9 How does RVN works? What problem did RVN solve? How do the Tokenomics work? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:34] RVN works like BTC, because it is a code fork of BTC. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:34] RVN lets you create your own tokens in under a minute. It is easy!!! Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:34] RVN is required to create your own token. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:35] Heres' the breakdown: Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:35] 500 RVN burned to create a root asset with a unique name. 100 RVN is burned to create a sub-asset (under a root asset). 5 RVN is burned to create a unique asset (NFT). 1000 RVN burned to be a qualifier. 1500 RVN burned to create a Restricted Asset with special superpowers. 0.1 RVN burned to attach a tag to a Ravencoin address. A small amount of RVN is used, but not burned to transfer assets. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:35] ------------ [email protected], [18.02.20 05:35] Let's move on to the next question#10 Safety and security are always the most important things. So what is the security mechanism of RavenCoin to ensure user assets do not become the target of hackers? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:36] Ravencoin has a strong network of miners. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:36] Most of the original code is from Bitcoin which is probably the most vetted code in the world. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:36] We have run a bug bounty to hopefully find any flaws before release to mainnet. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:36] With all that said, there are no guarantees as this is just source code provided for free that folks choose to run. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:37] If you need absolute assurance, then you should commission an audit of the code. There is no Ravencoin company, just a GitHub repository and a lot of passionate supporters. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:37] ------------- [email protected], [18.02.20 05:37] Quesiton#11 Nowaday most investors $RVN simply focus on the price of the token in the short term, and not on the real value of the project. Can you tell us about the motivation and advantages of an investor $RVN in the long term? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:38] I can't speak to the motivations of individual investors. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:38] RVN is a great token with good liquidity (world-wide). Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:38] RVN is used to incentivize the miners and help protect the Ravencoin asset platform, so it has a use case. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:39] RVN can be a store-of-value, and a medium-of-exchange. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:39] One of my favorite things about Ravencoin is that it is tricky to classify, as it has so many uses. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:39] I love seeing how people build using this technology platform. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:39] Ravencoin makes new things possible. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:39] -------------- [email protected], [18.02.20 05:40] Here's the next question #12 Who are your competitors and how do you intend to thrive amongst them? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:40] This may sound strange, but I don't see crypto technologies as competitors. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:41] The crypto space is tiny compared to the legacy systems we've had for fifty years, so I look at every project as a way to bring new people into crypto-ecosystem. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:41] If we add value, features, and capabilities, then more people will learn about the Ravencoin platform and what it can do for them. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:41] The ERC-20 smart contract is an alternative asset issuance option, but Ravencoin is much better for most uses, so more education is needed. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:41] https://medium.com/@tronblack/ravencoin-better-than-erc-20-88a276d3e434 Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:41] -------------- [email protected], [18.02.20 05:42] Quesiton#13 What is the uniqueness of the Raven token? Why should investors (including me) invest in Raven? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:42] Ravencoin is a platform. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:42] You should evaluate the capabilities of the Ravencoin platform and ask yourself whether it will be used, and whether it adds value over other platforms like ETH, EOS, or TEZOS. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:42] Hint: It does. I try not to provide investment advice, so do your own research. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:43] https://ravencoin.org Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:43] https://medium.com/@tronblack Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:43] --------------- [email protected], [18.02.20 05:43] Quesiton#14 What your plans in place for global expansion, are you focusing on only market at this time? Or focus on building and developing or getting customers and users, or partnerships? Can you explain this? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:43] Ravencoin is already a global phenomenon. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:44] South Korea has been onto Ravencoin for some time now, and I had the opportunity to speak at a South Korean Ravencoin meetup that filled an Art Hall with a waiting list. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:44] Because of OKEx, that awareness will expand to China. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:44] Our focus is building and education about Ravencoin. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:44] There is no marketing budget, and we raised no funds. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:45] The success so far has been completely organic, and Ravencoin has the best community of any coin, anywhere. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:45] ------------ [email protected], [18.02.20 05:45] Here is THE LAST question#10 from Twitter before we accept questions from the Telegram chat. what are your hopes with the $RVN listing on u/OKEx Okex going forward? Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:45] I hope the OKEx $RVN listing brings awareness of Ravencoin to new parts of the world. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:46] The project is more capable than most people know, and because it was launched without raising any funds, there isn't a marketing budget. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:46] It is up to smart individuals, like yourselves, to figure out what Ravencoin can do, and use the technology to make new companies and new projects. Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:46] ------------------ +++++++++++++++++++++ Tron Black, [18.02.20 05:57] >>> When is mainnet launch? January 3, 2018 Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:01] >>> A project's Technical development may not always be reflected on the price of it's token. What is raven doing specifically to increase price of its token? I agree. And I think it is especially true in the case of Ravencoin. The true value may not be reflected in the short-term. The Ravencoin project isn't a company. It will take time. There isn't a marketing dept or budget, but through events like these, and podcasts, and blogs, and new projects building on top of Ravencoin, I think the value will eventually be reflected. Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:06] >>>> Give me some important reasons why we need to buy RVN token where in fact hundreds of project failed and it went to bankruptcy or even developers run when they collect millions/billions of funds…? Can you explain it to us Many got burned during the crazy ICO phase of 2017. Ravencoin did not participate. Ravencoin is technology and a passionate community. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow (heaven forbid), the project will continue because it is free, open-source and anyone can carry it on, or contribute, or use it, or copy it. Ravencoin can't go to bankruptcy. It is code, and it doesn't borrow, or or have debt. Some of the core develoepers, myself included, are allowed to work on the project while working for Medici Ventures. This is a great arrangement. Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:06] ----------------- Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:10] >>>> How does RAVENCOIN evaluate the importance of the user community? In the near future, does RAVEN have any special plans to attract and expand the community ? The Ravencoin community is the most important and valuable part of the project. There are already clones of the code, but not of the passionate, helpful, and dedicated community. We invite you to become a part of it, and help expand it in Asia. Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:10] -------------------- Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:13] >>>>. RVN is regulatory compliant project for assets tokenization in U.S. Meaning that the assets issued in RVN protocol is fine with the U.S authorities. Ravencoin provides features that help U.S. issuers stay legal under the existing U.S. rules. I've written about how this can be done, but I would always recommend having your plans reviewed by a competent attorney. The U.S. rules are complex, and from a different era. Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:13] --------------- Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:18] >>>> Ravencoin is constantly finding new big partners.Audience is constantly growing.What’s the secret to this growth rate? A vibrant, and welcoming community. Technology that solves real tokenization problems. Easy-to-use, so anyone can participate. Not launching as an ICO, so it is fair for everyone. Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:18] -------------- Tron Black, [18.02.20 06:20] Thank you everyone for the fantastic questions. I would like to answer every one of them, but it is after 4am and I should get some sleep. I really appreciate all the participation, and I hope your trading on OKEx goes very well for all of you!!!
Transcript of discussion between an ASIC designer and several proof-of-work designers from #monero-pow channel on Freenode this morning
[08:07:01] lukminer contains precompiled cn/r math sequences for some blocks: https://lukminer.org/2019/03/09/oh-kay-v4r-here-we-come/ [08:07:11] try that with RandomX :P [08:09:00] tevador: are you ready for some RandomX feedback? it looks like the CNv4 is slowly stabilizing, hashrate comes down... [08:09:07] how does it even make sense to precompile it? [08:09:14] mine 1% faster for 2 minutes? [08:09:35] naturally we think the entire asic-resistance strategy is doomed to fail :) but that's a high-level thing, who knows. people may think it's great. [08:09:49] about RandomX: looks like the cache size was chosen to make it GPU-hard [08:09:56] looking forward to more docs [08:11:38] after initial skimming, I would think it's possible to make a 10x asic for RandomX. But at least for us, we will only make an ASIC if there is not a total ASIC hostility there in the first place. That's better for the secret miners then. [08:13:12] What I propose is this: we are working on an Ethash ASIC right now, and once we have that working, we would invite tevador or whoever wants to come to HK/Shenzhen and we walk you guys through how we would make a RandomX ASIC. You can then process this input in any way you like. Something like that. [08:13:49] unless asics (or other accelerators) re-emerge on XMR faster than expected, it looks like there is a little bit of time before RandomX rollout [08:14:22] 10x in what measure? $/hash or watt/hash? [08:14:46] watt/hash [08:15:19] so you can make 10 times more efficient double precisio FPU? [08:16:02] like I said let's try to be productive. You are having me here, let's work together! [08:16:15] continue with RandomX, publish more docs. that's always helpful. [08:16:37] I'm trying to understand how it's possible at all. Why AMD/Intel are so inefficient at running FP calculations? [08:18:05] midipoet ([email protected]/web/irccloud.com/x-vszshqqxwybvtsjm) has joined #monero-pow [08:18:17] hardware development works the other way round. We start with 1) math then 2) optimization priority 3) hw/sw boundary 4) IP selection 5) physical implementation [08:22:32] This still doesn't explain at which point you get 10x [08:23:07] Weren't you the ones claiming "We can accelerate ProgPoW by a factor of 3x to 8x." ? I find it hard to believe too. [08:30:20] sure [08:30:26] so my idea: first we finish our current chip [08:30:35] from simulation to silicon :) [08:30:40] we love this stuff... we do it anyway [08:30:59] now we have a communication channel, and we don't call each other names immediately anymore: big progress! [08:31:06] you know, we russians have a saying "it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about ravines" [08:31:12] So I need a bit more details [08:31:16] ha ha. good! [08:31:31] that's why I want to avoid to just make claims [08:31:34] let's work [08:31:40] RandomX comes in Sep/Oct, right? [08:31:45] Maybe [08:32:20] We need to audit it first [08:32:31] ok [08:32:59] we don't make chips to prove sw devs that their assumptions about hardware are wrong. especially not if these guys then promptly hardfork and move to the next wrong assumption :) [08:33:10] from the outside, this only means that hw & sw are devaluing each other [08:33:24] neither of us should do this [08:33:47] we are making chips that can hopefully accelerate more crypto ops in the future [08:33:52] signing, verifying, proving, etc. [08:34:02] PoW is just a feature like others [08:34:18] sech1: is it easy for you to come to Hong Kong? (visa-wise) [08:34:20] or difficult? [08:34:33] or are you there sometimes? [08:34:41] It's kind of far away [08:35:13] we are looking forward to more RandomX docs. that's the first step. [08:35:31] I want to avoid that we have some meme "Linzhi says they can accelerate XYZ by factor x" .... "ha ha ha" [08:35:37] right? we don't want that :) [08:35:39] doc is almost finished [08:35:40] What docs do you need? It's described pretty good [08:35:41] so I better say nothing now [08:35:50] we focus on our Ethash chip [08:36:05] then based on that, we are happy to walk interested people through the design and what else it can do [08:36:22] that's a better approach from my view than making claims that are laughed away (rightfully so, because no silicon...) [08:36:37] ethash ASIC is basically a glorified memory controller [08:36:39] sech1: tevador said something more is coming (he just did it again) [08:37:03] yes, some parts of RandomX are not described well [08:37:10] like dataset access logic [08:37:37] RandomX looks like progpow for CPU [08:37:54] yes [08:38:03] it is designed to reflect CPU [08:38:34] so any ASIC for it = CPU in essence [08:39:04] of course there are still some things in regular CPU that can be thrown away for RandomX [08:40:20] uncore parts are not used, but those will use very little power [08:40:37] except for memory controller [08:41:09] I'm just surprised sometimes, ok? let me ask: have you designed or taped out an asic before? isn't it risky to make assumptions about things that are largely unknown? [08:41:23] I would worry [08:41:31] that I get something wrong... [08:41:44] but I also worry like crazy that CNv4 will blow up, where you guys seem to be relaxed [08:42:06] I didn't want to bring up anything RandomX because CNv4 is such a nailbiter... :) [08:42:15] how do you guys know you don't have asics in a week or two? [08:42:38] we don't have experience with ASIC design, but RandomX is simply designed to exactly fit CPU capabilities, which is the best you can do anyways [08:43:09] similar as ProgPoW did with GPUs [08:43:14] some people say they want to do asic-resistance only until the vast majority of coins has been issued [08:43:21] that's at least reasonable [08:43:43] yeah but progpow totally will not work as advertised :) [08:44:08] yeah, I've seen that comment about progpow a few times already [08:44:11] which is no surprise if you know it's just a random sales story to sell a few more GPUs [08:44:13] RandomX is not permanent, we are expecting to switch to ASIC friendly in a few years if possible [08:44:18] yes [08:44:21] that makes sense [08:44:40] linzhi-sonia: how so? will it break or will it be asic-able with decent performance gains? [08:44:41] are you happy with CNv4 so far? [08:45:10] ah, long story. progpow is a masterpiece of deception, let's not get into it here. [08:45:21] if you know chip marketing it makes more sense [08:45:24] linzhi-sonia: So far? lol! a bit early to tell, don't you think? [08:45:35] the diff is coming down [08:45:41] first few hours looked scary [08:45:43] I remain skeptical: I only see ASICs being reasonable if they are already as ubiquitous as smartphones [08:45:46] yes, so far so good [08:46:01] we kbew the diff would not come down ubtil affter block 75 [08:46:10] yes [08:46:22] but first few hours it looks like only 5% hashrate left [08:46:27] looked [08:46:29] now it's better [08:46:51] the next worry is: when will "unexplainable" hashrate come back? [08:47:00] you hope 2-3 months? more? [08:47:05] so give it another couple of days. will probably overshoot to the downside, and then rise a bit as miners get updated and return [08:47:22] 3 months minimum turnaround, yes [08:47:28] nah [08:47:36] don't underestimate asicmakers :) [08:47:54] you guys don't get #1 priority on chip fabs [08:47:56] 3 months = 90 days. do you know what is happening in those 90 days exactly? I'm pretty sure you don't. same thing as before. [08:48:13] we don't do any secret chips btw [08:48:21] 3 months assumes they had a complete design ready to go, and added the last minute change in 1 day [08:48:24] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked? [08:48:27] innosilicon? [08:48:34] hyc: no no, and no. :) [08:48:44] hyc: have you designed or taped out a chip before? [08:48:51] yes, many years ago [08:49:10] then you should know that 90 days is not a fixed number [08:49:35] sure, but like I said, other makers have greater demand [08:49:35] especially not if you can prepare, if you just have to modify something, or you have more programmability in the chip than some people assume [08:50:07] we are chipmakers, we would never dare to do what you guys are doing with CNv4 :) but maybe that just means you are cooler! [08:50:07] and yes, programmability makes some aspect of turnaround easier [08:50:10] all fine [08:50:10] I hope it works! [08:50:28] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked? [08:50:29] inno? [08:50:41] we suspect so, but have no evidence [08:50:44] maybe we can try to find them, but we cannot spend too much time on this [08:50:53] it's probably not so much of a secret [08:51:01] why should it be, right? [08:51:10] devs want this cat-and-mouse game? devs get it... [08:51:35] there was one leak saying it's innosilicon [08:51:36] so you think 3 months, ok [08:51:43] inno is cool [08:51:46] good team [08:51:49] IP design house [08:51:54] in Wuhan [08:52:06] they send their people to conferences with fake biz cards :) [08:52:19] pretending to be other companies? [08:52:26] sure [08:52:28] ha ha [08:52:39] so when we see them, we look at whatever card they carry and laugh :) [08:52:52] they are perfectly suited for secret mining games [08:52:59] they made at most $6 million in 2 months of mining, so I wonder if it was worth it [08:53:10] yeah. no way to know [08:53:15] but it's good that you calculate! [08:53:24] this is all about cost/benefit [08:53:25] then you also understand - imagine the value of XMR goes up 5x, 10x [08:53:34] that whole "asic resistance" thing will come down like a house of cards [08:53:41] I would imagine they sell immediately [08:53:53] the investor may fully understand the risk [08:53:57] the buyer [08:54:13] it's not healthy, but that's another discussion [08:54:23] so mid-June [08:54:27] let's see [08:54:49] I would be susprised if CNv4 ASICs show up at all [08:54:56] surprised* [08:54:56] why? [08:55:05] is only an economic question [08:55:12] yeah should be interesting. FPGAs will be near their limits as well [08:55:16] unless XMR goes up a lot [08:55:19] no, not *only*. it's also a technology question [08:55:44] you believe CNv4 is "asic resistant"? which feature? [08:55:53] it's not [08:55:59] cnv4 = Rabdomx ? [08:56:03] no [08:56:07] cnv4=cryptinight/r [08:56:11] ah [08:56:18] CNv4 is the one we have now, I think [08:56:21] since yesterday [08:56:30] it's plenty enough resistant for current XMR price [08:56:45] that may be, yes! [08:56:55] I look at daily payouts. XMR = ca. 100k USD / day [08:57:03] it can hold until October, but it's not asic resistant [08:57:23] well, last 24h only 22,442 USD :) [08:57:32] I think 80 h/s per watt ASICs are possible for CNv4 [08:57:38] linzhi-sonia where do you produce your chips? TSMC? [08:57:44] I'm cruious how you would expect to build a randomX ASIC that outperforms ARM cores for efficiency, or Intel cores for raw speed [08:57:48] curious [08:58:01] yes, tsmc [08:58:21] Our team did the world's first bitcoin asic, Avalon [08:58:25] and upcoming 2nd gen Ryzens (64-core EPYC) will be a blast at RandomX [08:58:28] designed and manufactured [08:58:53] still being marketed? [08:59:03] linzhi-sonia: do you understand what xmr wants to achieve, community-wise? [08:59:14] Avalon? as part of Canaan Creative, yes I think so. [08:59:25] there's not much interesting oing on in SHA256 [08:59:29] Inge-: I would think so, but please speak [08:59:32] hyc: yes [09:00:28] linzhi-sonia: i am curious to hear your thoughts. I am fairly new to this space myself... [09:00:51] oh [09:00:56] we are grandpas, and grandmas [09:01:36] yet I have no problem understanding why ASICS are currently reviled. [09:01:48] xmr's main differentiators to, let's say btc, are anonymity and fungibility [09:01:58] I find the client terribly slow btw [09:02:21] and I think the asic-forking since last may is wrong, doesn't create value and doesn't help with the project objectives [09:02:25] which "the client" ? [09:02:52] Monero GUI client maybe [09:03:12] MacOS, yes [09:03:28] What exactly is slow? [09:03:30] linzhi-sonia: I run my own node, and use the CLI and Monerujo. Have not had issues. [09:03:49] staying in sync [09:03:49] linzhi-sonia: decentralization is also a key principle [09:03:56] one that Bitcoin has failed to maintain [09:04:39] hmm [09:05:00] looks fairly decentralized to me. decentralization is the result of 3 goals imo: resilient, trustless, permissionless [09:05:28] don't ask a hardware maker about physical decentralization. that's too ideological. we focus on logical decentralization. [09:06:11] physical decentralization is important. with bulk of bitnoin mining centered on Chinese hydroelectric dams [09:06:19] have you thought about including block data in the PoW? [09:06:41] yes, of course. [09:07:39] is that already in an algo? [09:08:10] hyc: about "centered on chinese hydro" - what is your source? the best paper I know is this: https://coinshares.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Mining-Whitepaper-Final.pdf [09:09:01] linzhi-sonia: do you mine on your ASICs before you sell them? [09:09:13] besides testing of course [09:09:45] that paper puts Chinese btc miners at 60% max [09:10:05] tevador: I think everybody learned that that is not healthy long-term! [09:10:16] because it gives the chipmaker a cost advantage over its own customers [09:10:33] and cost advantage leads to centralization (physical and logical) [09:10:51] you guys should know who finances progpow and why :) [09:11:05] but let's not get into this, ha ha. want to keep the channel civilized. right OhGodAGirl ? :) [09:11:34] tevador: so the answer is no! 100% and definitely no [09:11:54] that "self-mining" disease was one of the problems we have now with asics, and their bad reputation (rightfully so) [09:13:08] I plan to write a nice short 2-page paper or so on our chip design process. maybe it's interesting to some people here. [09:13:15] basically the 5 steps I mentioned before, from math to physical [09:13:32] linzhi-sonia: the paper you linked puts 48% of bitcoin mining in Sichuan. the total in China is much more than 60% [09:13:38] need to run it by a few people to fix bugs, will post it here when published [09:14:06] hyc: ok! I am just sharing the "best" document I know today. it definitely may be wrong and there may be a better one now. [09:14:18] hyc: if you see some reports, please share [09:14:51] hey I am really curious about this: where is a PoW algo that puts block data into the PoW? [09:15:02] the previous paper I read is from here http://hackingdistributed.com/2018/01/15/decentralization-bitcoin-ethereum/ [09:15:38] hyc: you said that already exists? (block data in PoW) [09:15:45] it would make verification harder [09:15:49] linzhi-sonia: https://the-eye.eu/public/Books/campdivision.com/PDF/Computers%20General/Privacy/bitcoin/meh/hashimoto.pdf [09:15:51] but for chips it would be interesting [09:15:52] we discussed the possibility about a year ago https://www.reddit.com/Monero/comments/8bshrx/what_we_need_to_know_about_proof_of_work_pow/ [09:16:05] oh good links! thanks! need to read... [09:16:06] I think that paper by dryja was original [09:17:53] since we have a nice flow - second question I'm very curious about: has anyone thought about in-protocol rewards for other functions? [09:18:55] we've discussed micropayments for wallets to use remote nodes [09:18:55] you know there is a lot of work in other coins about STARK provers, zero-knowledge, etc. many of those things very compute intense, or need to be outsourced to a service (zether). For chipmakers, in-protocol rewards create an economic incentive to accelerate those things. [09:19:50] whenever there is an in-protocol reward, you may get the power of ASICs doing something you actually want to happen [09:19:52] it would be nice if there was some economic reward for running a fullnode, but no one has come up with much more than that afaik [09:19:54] instead of fighting them off [09:20:29] you need to use asics, not fight them. that's an obvious thing to say for an asicmaker... [09:20:41] in-protocol rewards can be very powerful [09:20:50] like I said before - unless the ASICs are so useful they're embedded in every smartphone, I dont see them being a positive for decentralization [09:21:17] if they're a separate product, the average consumer is not going to buy them [09:21:20] now I was talking about speedup of verifying, signing, proving, etc. [09:21:23] they won't even know what they are [09:22:07] if anybody wants to talk about or design in-protocol rewards, please come talk to us [09:22:08] the average consumer also doesn't use general purpose hardware to secure blockchains either [09:22:14] not just for PoW, in fact *NOT* for PoW [09:22:32] it requires sw/hw co-design [09:23:10] we are in long-term discussions/collaboration over this with Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash. just talk right now. [09:23:16] this was recently published though suggesting more uptake though I guess https://btcmanager.com/college-students-are-the-second-biggest-miners-of-cryptocurrency/ [09:23:29] I find it pretty hard to believe their numbers [09:24:03] well [09:24:09] sorry, original article: https://www.pcmag.com/news/366952/college-kids-are-using-campus-electricity-to-mine-crypto [09:24:11] just talk, no? rumors [09:24:18] college students are already more educated than the average consumer [09:24:29] we are not seeing many such customers anymore [09:24:30] it's data from cisco monitoring network traffic